Azure The Heartless.3261's Content - Page 92 (2024)

On 2/9/2023 at 5:55 AM, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Joko the Benevolent is here once again to grace your feeble mortal minds with pearls of ageless wisdom. (You may bow now.)

I didn't read the rest but this person has the correct opinion on whatever they're talking about.

On 2/9/2023 at 10:33 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

Like... why would you ever run Acro s/d now?

Now?
Nobody runs acro. The devs are terrified of making it do anything.

PSA that if you buff swipe by reverting it to steal range, but don't adjust the CDs of the defensive/heal skills, you're just going to trade Deadeyes fordaredevils that slot only damage and blow you up from 1200 distance away then leave.

Not that they can do concerning levels of damage to begin with, but someone -will- die and they -will- whine.

See yall in the next[Thief OP]thread.

35 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Okay functionally speaking, it is loaded. It does 3 active effects for the price of 1 button press. Let's compare some other core healing skills in the same CD range, 1 from each class with as much "load" on the same level as Withdraw:

Shelter for example. Boi's Heeal with 2s block with a hefty 30s CD. 2 active effects.

To The Limit! Heal and gain Adrenaline and Endurance, 30s CD. 3 active effects~ cos idk if you can consider refilling resources as an active effect.

Soothing Stone: Heal + Condi Cleanse + Resolution gain, 30s CD. 3 active effects~ and again, not sure if Resolution gain is an active effect but let's say it is.

Elixir H: Heal + Boons. 25s CD. 2 active effects.

Troll Ungent: HoT. 1 active effect. 25s. Only listed because it's the only one with the same CD range.

Only one I would consider on the same level of Withdraw is To The Limit because it heals for easily 2x the amount of every other healing skill here while providing additional benefits. Withdraw is considered "a little" to me because it performs 3 actions (2 and a half if we discount the condition removal) and actually a little more because it isn't only just an evade, it's an evade with movement tied to it, which makes it more mechanically valuable in combat.

At least this is how I consider a skill's "loadedness" and Withdraw is functionally loaded.

Eh really? I've seen a few Thieves in WvW use it, usually in conjunction with Roll for Ini to give themselves around 1000 units of retreat while fully evaded.

None of that matters.

Thief is functionally different for the classes listed above. It doesn't have potential for high levels of staying power, nor does it have high levels of damage to finish fights quickly on its own. The skills you listed above have been balanced based on what they provide to the classes listed, and how they help them fulfill their class roles. The skills often come coupled with additional mitigative skills to help bridge the gap while the heal (or heals, in the case of revenant) is/are on cooldown. Thief has very limited access to skills of that type.

Just because the classes mentioned above have those cds does not mean others should be changed for parity, especially if they have not led to problematic builds. Balancing or forming opinions based on how many 'things' a skill does, without consideration of the needs of that class is also an issue.

If you keep balancing in directions that keep all the skill uptimes nice and neat without adjusting the functionality of the professions that have need of that uptime (or, in this case, making it worse), you will balance classes out of the game.

I'm sure eventually there will be a balance patch that adjusts the cd of Withdraw and Dagger storm. I'm just trying to save Anet some time and thieves a couple of months of headache/profession shelving.

21 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

The skill is kinda loaded utility wise, but the 25s thing is probably Anet's balance philosophy. Personally I'd like it to be a nice and sweet 20s. Don't see it happening tho.

The balance philosophy means nothing if adhering to it causes a class to become disproprtionately inflexible for the role it is intended to fill.

Nobody is going to use Skelk venom, malice signet, mercy or channeled vigor for obvious reasons pertaining to how little damage it takes to kill a thief against the effort needed to get decent healing for any of them.

Itll be Hide in Shadows and that's it. You don't even see withdraw being used right now. This only punishes the handful of thieves insistent on playing melee.

I won't entertain the idea that it's loaded. We will have to agree to disagree.

17 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

There's debate to be had here.

Withdraw is a 4k base heal (5k in competitive) with movement impairment removal and evade baked in at 18s CD (25 competitive). That's a little loaded in my book. You should be having a giggle that Anet isn't even looking at it with the nerf bat considering there are things nerfed for being less loaded. But the only reason Anet probably won't reduce its cooldown is to adhere to their "Heal nerf" balance declaration back then where they decided sustain was a little too darn high in competitive so everyone got slapped.

Daggerstorm probably could use the CD reduction. It Evades and Reflects but it's only for 3s and does jack for damage and is used to usually facilitate escapes.

I don't have anything constructive to say regarding withdraw being considered loaded at 25 seconds.

I'm not surprised though.

This has been said before, but adding it for parity.

Stop making the class needlessly more difficult if you're going to ship things like catalyst and expect thief to interact with them. Daggerstorm and Withdraw are picked because they are useful and the competing skills are not, not because they are overpowered innately. They do not deserve to be excluded from the CD reductions given to the other tricks.

If you want people to use -other- skills, make those skills also useful instead of making the useful skills less useful.

Friendly reminder before patch day.

5 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

1. Cata/Ele in general very seriously need nerfs in the sustain department. As it stands, the scepter builds will still be S tier, while H Cata will still be S tier, where as other classes will be A- tiers or lower. This list of nerfs will bring scepter builds from Tier 4 OP down to Tier 1 OP but they'll still be OP. Arenanet doesn't seem to understand how many levels of out of control powerful Ele has reached within the past 12 months.
2. Mesmer builds in general are fronting too much sheer invulnerability. I don't even care how Arenanet deals with this problem, jack up their DPS or their CC uptime, I don't care. Just remove some of the invulnerability effects. I want to be able to hit Mesmers when playing against them instead of being forced to ignore them.
3. Spellbreaker probably didn't get enough nerfing. Thing is, it doesn't need wildly large nerfs in the way that Cata/Ele does. It needs some shaving in just the right places. It doesn't need nerfs to Core War, it is Spellbreaker that is overperforming. I am in favor of what Spellbreaker main say, fix the bug that makes Full Counter recharge faster than it's supposed to, and that would probably be enough to fix Spellbreaker.

This is generally correct.

If they're willing to nuke Shadow Meld because removing revealed is obnoxious enough to warrant it, they should absolutely be adjusting the distortion access on virtuoso/condi chronobunker as well. I am willing to give Mirage a pass because it's otherwise hamstrung by its dodge limitations.

4 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

anet actually somehow managed to make the new acro worse than the one they gutted.

I try not to think about this.

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it’s at the point where I think acro will never come back, simply because they replaced traits with such utter garbage

Probably not. Core traitlines gradually becoming more and more useless because players dislike interacting with you [up close], [far away], or [for any reason that doesn't swiftly result in your death] seems kind of Thief's thing.

19 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Warrior has been treated like dirt forever, but when you do see a good warrior stomp, you know it's 100% skill and effort. I don't expect things to change, but I do wish things got better.

They're trying. But I won't forget it took several years and a particuarly tone-deaf banner rework to embarrass people enough to throw CmC/Roy at this in earnest. The warriors wanna pvp too.

55 minutes ago, gmmg.9210 said:

The meta is consumed by 2 classes right now and that's it.

But it seems that every time a strike is taken at nuance that could help balance things not immediately in the foreground, weird changes are made that just introduce new problems. Like... we didn't need to rework trickery. Or buff entangle. People won't take Signet of Malice, even if the cd is 12 seconds.

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so that pvp can look attractive to more players.

It took years of Anet not paying attention to what people want to do to get PvP to this state. It's going to likely take years, or consecutively amazing patches to get PvP to the point where people want to engage with it, then several more to ensure the community cant cannibalize itself with wintrading.

56 minutes ago, nuwanomura.5763 said:

I feel they dislike warrior

On 2/5/2023 at 8:05 AM, Avatar.3568 said:

isn'T swipe better? i mean you can interrupt literaly every rez utility

All 5 of them? Dang. So versatile compared to just blowing someone up by instantly teleporting up three flights of stairs. Barely see situations where you can do that.

The people who were mad their one block got put on CD while they were channeling it were whining.

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As for Daredevil it is just acrobatics but upgraded. Idk why it bothers me so much butUnhindered Combatdoes the same thing in one asExpeditious DodgerandDon't Stoplike no one even bothered to look if Thief could already do that.

They don't care (or don't know what they want thieves to do). (Or do know what they want thieves to do, and only focus on things thieves actually play. )

2 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I understand thieves needs a window to land their skills, but I also happen to need a window to land my skills instead of having to chase through 16 stealths, blind and back-and-forth with shadowstep, and having thief mains also dropping the "having a 3s window to close some 1200 range is still too much 😞I need 0s window or game is unfair"

You dont understand. If you don't do the bolded (or, if the bolded results in no significant damage due to nerfing of power coefficients on thief), you will get the italicized forever.

Literally nobody said they need 0s window, but there's a very clear reason why you see very few thieves now, and the ones youdosee are intent on making life as miserable for both of you as possible.

If thieves -cant- do enough damage to threaten people, and they -cant- fight protracted fights within close range because their mitigation sucks, they will gravitate to annoying, long distance builds that either only show up when you can't do anything about them or are designed around wasting time, both of which are more annoying than the issue people want fixed.

On 2/5/2023 at 10:14 AM, Zuko.7132 said:

But bullscharge does that better.

use both, that way bulls charge can be used to set up burst, and leap can be used to run away while waiting for bulls charge (or to bait dodges if a user is expecting bull's charge)

*sip tea*

They should make it work like the pokemon version where it has ammo (three stacks), with a cd of.. 25ish seconds each, but the moment you use the last stack you:

1.) exchange the stun for daze instead

2.) Put heavy stacks of confusion on yourself in addition to breaking the stun

3.) Take damage/increased damage for a set duration.

4.) Stun yourself after 3-ish seconds.

19 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

I would think that if someone at the company was to purposely mess something up it would be retaliation for how bad they are badly balancing atm.

That's a spicy take and I like it. For obvious reasons I hope not, but spicy nonetheless.

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but tbh I’m not saying that I believe someone did do it on purpose- I just cannot see how a stealth attack would cause something like the code jumping out of a loop an into an error spot that makes people dc.

There doesn't need to be any specific issue with logic loops for a specific type of attack to cause a player to disconnect. many instances of these run at a time, and any interaction with them being handled improperly (even if the logic loops themselves are fine) can cause unexpected behavior.

When an attack lands there are several behaviors (like rendering the player, handling the damage and its modifiers, its direction, combat logging), many of which are invisible to a user (data associated with whether the attack came from stealth or not and, if so, if any modifiers needed to be applied) that could just fail to be handled or handled improperly.

If there's any mechanism that is monitoring (or not monitoring properly) for these interactions, disconnection of the client is one of the easiest ways to prevent any major issues that may crop up. That may not be preferable, but it could just be a response to another type of issue being caught.

On 2/4/2023 at 3:19 PM, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Also I have a degree in comp sci and this isn’t a normal mistake in coding.

I highly doubt there is a loop that is ending at the wrong time for this and that would be the only reason someone made an honest mistake on something like this.

either the coders at anet are horrible or someone did that on purpose

There's not only one person responsible for verifying whether everything is good to go for prod. It's an oversight,

pushing a game build live that can cause dcs with an interaction so easily identifiable/replicable would not be something you'd build if you were up to some nefarious plan to facilitate win-trading or what have you. You'd hide it better than that.

5 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

Definitely, especially if documented as well as my devs document things, despite giving them an outline document to work from.

It's more likely this. It's almost certainly this, actually. Developers are very bad at keeping notes on things they work on. (not all of them, but enough. Commenting code is annoying.)

Or it's "The devs don't test how skills work on other players because they largely develop for pve" which tracksreally kitten wellwith the last dozen or so class mechanic patches.

On 2/3/2023 at 3:47 PM, SehferViega.8725 said:

I can only see nerf for thieves in PvP / WvW:

1) Trickster won't reduce Tricks skills cooldown anymore , butWithdraw doesn't get a base cooldown reduction and Dagger Storm neither. The +1 condition removed is quite useless on a class that has no problems on condi cleaning.

2) Roll for Initiative will regenarete 4 initiative instead of 6.

3) Swipe/Steal: Daredevil will lost unblockable steal, that's a huge nerf, and one of its core mechanics: it will be a thief with just different dodges.

4) Shadow Meld: it won't removeRevealedanymore, becoming basically a Blinding Powder that doesn't blind. Deadeyes will play Dagger Storm or Basilisk Venom. Another core mechanics killed.

In the meanwhile without Shadow Arts and Trickerythieves really struggle with initiative costs andPulmonary Impactis still a joke (and it will be even worse without unblockable Swipe).

The included trick cd changes do not offset the change to trickster, and the signet changes are not effective enough to bridge that gap either. If this change is just for parity, reconsider, provide an additional mitigative benefit for trickster like barrier or alacrity, or adjust the cooldown of -all- tricks. It's a nerf as it stands currently, and Thief is not currently performing in a way that warrants this.

Nobody will use Signet of Malice, because the combat situation required to get value from it will require more healing than signet of malice puts out. This skill requires more than a CD decrease if you want people to use it outside of PvE. If you're balancing based on skill usage, please consider -why- thieves are overusing certain skills and not using other ones before making changes to the skills that thieves opt for.

17 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

You have stealth.

I can see this is pointless in arguing but I'm trying anyway. Look at the bigger picture here. What does thief lose with reduced access to stealth, and what playstyles do you think they will take if you continually make it harder for them to avoid damage while also not providing them means to do damage faster?

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After 3s of landing your skills, just like every other class has.

Other classes don't rely on stealth for enabling their traits or attacks, or regenerating the resources needed to use their traits or attacks.

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Because, believe it or not, being able to poke from 1200 range and immediately stealthing again is NOT good design.

Correct take. But they're not building thief in a way that makes playing it riskily rewarding, so instead of this fixing that annoying interaction, it will just create another annoying interaction.

Just now, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I'm sorry, we live in a universe where thief has no access to evades, ports and blinds?

Nobody said they didn't have access. However, the access to those things is less balanced around the mitigative skills themselves and more balanced around the presence of stealth, to the point that removing means of stealth access hurts thief playstyles disproportionately.

If you get targeted by a player after choosing to launch even a single damaging skill, initiative costs limit your access to those three things, and the utilities that provide these are (at least for now) high cooldown.

Youd understand if your shatters shared cooldowns.

2 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Just... the same way every other class with stealth does...? Mesmer\engineer\ranger lands an attack from stealth, they are revealed, they kite for 3s until revealed wears off? What's the big deal now?

Consider that the three classes you just mentioned have several other defensive buttons they can press that can prevent them from immediately going down, and don't rely on stealth for access to key damaging skills.

If you're going to come to the above conclusion, don't build the class defensives/offensives around entering/maintaining/having constant access to stealth.

7 minutes ago, Bunny.9834 said:

They're purposely leaving Withdraw and Daggerstorm out because those skills are overused. So they don't get to keep their CD reduction.

I know. it's stupid.

Hello? Roy? CmC pls?

Withdraw is a trick. It is not getting its cd reduced by the 5 seconds trickster reduces it by per the incoming patchnotes.

make withdraw 20 secs baseline. Thanks~